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Old 05-03-2018, 02:05 PM   #11
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It makes you look like a junkie and attention seeker.
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people picture these monsters and think of us as them, I didn't start this to be looked at as a freak or attention seeker and I know none of you guys did and it makes me sad because our amazing work and amazing talented artists get wrongly judged.
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I don't consider this tattoo lovers but honestly mentally unstable
Jesus wept. You do realise that you could drop that kind of talk into the comments section of any Daily Mail article featuring someone with a tattoo or piercing any you'd fit right in.

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What annoys me is we get put in the same basket as these people, it's why tattooing has a negative stigma in society,
No it's not. Tattooing has (had?) a negative stigma in society long before the Brutal Black Project was conceived. I'd wager the vast majority of people who judge you for your tattoos have never even heard of a split tongue or eyeball tattooing.

I hate the Bible with a passion but there is one line it in that makes perfect sense: "Judge not, that ye be not judged". In this situation, on a tattoo forum of all places, I'd suggest that you apply a bit of this before throwing words like "mentally unstable" around.
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:21 PM   #12
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Jesus wept. You do realise that you could drop that kind of talk into the comments section of any Daily Mail article featuring someone with a tattoo or piercing any you'd fit right in.



No it's not. Tattooing has (had?) a negative stigma in society long before the Brutal Black Project was conceived. I'd wager the vast majority of people who judge you for your tattoos have never even heard of a split tongue or eyeball tattooing.

I hate the Bible with a passion but there is one line it in that makes perfect sense: "Judge not, that ye be not judged". In this situation, on a tattoo forum of all places, I'd suggest that you apply a bit of this before throwing words like "mentally unstable" around.
But you wouldn't fit right in would you? Because you are saying having a standard piercing or tattoo is the same as cutting your nose off... It's fair to say one is quite extreme and the other isn't lol

It's like saying having a tattoo of jews being hung or a swastika is the same as having a portrait of Elvis for instance, you can throw the old 'don't judge' line for anything but everyone judges whether you admit or not and this is a discussion on where you stand with this extreme stuff.

And this is more interesting on here because I wanted to see where you guys stood on the subject, I could have made it on another forum and I already know everyone would call them freaks and low lifes, hell most people on forums I go on legit hate all tattoos which surprises me.

So from what you are saying you see it completely normal for this type of modification? You wouldn't think someone who does might have something wrong with them or hell, you yourself would do it?

Don't pull the I don't judge card but your actual thoughts, because that is such a generic term that is just thrown in when someone doesn't want to or have an actual thought on it.

Also from the way you are talking you instantly associate us on here with tattoos with people who do this crazy stuff, why is that? I see no relation between having tattoos to having your ears took off and horns in your head, just because it's a tattoo forum and we are lovers of tattoos doesn't mean we are all for going to the extreme with pain.
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:45 PM   #13
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No, I'm saying who are you (or anyone) to draw the line about what anyone thinks is an "acceptable" body modification (not my favourite term, but it'll do here) and what is not?

There is no such thing as a "standard" tattoo. To some people, any tattoo is wrong, disgusting and a sign of low self esteem/mental illness. So to then have you apply these same terms to certain types of tattoos or other body mods(!) suggests a level of generalisation akin to the Daily Mail reader referenced above (how do you know Mr split tongue or Mrs eyeball tattoo is mentally ill? You don't. You are just generalising based on your own prejudices).

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Originally Posted by portraitofcurcelli View Post
It's like saying having a tattoo of jews being hung or a swastika is the same as having a portrait of Elvis for instance, you can throw the old 'don't judge' line for anything but everyone judges whether you admit or not and this is a discussion on where you stand with this extreme stuff.
Total red herring. The (nazi) swastika tattoo is offensive due to the motivations of the person who decides to get it, not because of the tattoo itself. If it had no meaning then the tattoo itself would not be offensive unless you found all tattoos offensive.

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So from what you are saying you see it completely normal for this type of modification? You wouldn't think someone who does might have something wrong with them or hell, you yourself would do it?
That's a red herring too. I can find something aesthetically unappealing without questioning why someone else might choose to get it. I don't have my earlobes pierced: doesn't mean that I consider ear piercing to be ugly or undesirable. I would never get my hands tattooed, but I don't think that anyone with a hand tattoo is a mentally ill junkie with a nihilistic outlook.
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Old 05-03-2018, 02:57 PM   #14
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No, I'm saying who are you (or anyone) to draw the line about what anyone thinks is an "acceptable" body modification (not my favourite term, but it'll do here) and what is not?

There is no such thing as a "standard" tattoo. To some people, any tattoo is wrong, disgusting and a sign of low self esteem/mental illness. So to then have you apply these same terms to certain types of tattoos or other body mods(!) suggests a level of generalisation akin to the Daily Mail reader referenced above (how do you know Mr split tongue or Mrs eyeball tattoo is mentally ill? You don't. You are just generalising based on your own prejudices).



Total red herring. The (nazi) swastika tattoo is offensive due to the motivations of the person who decides to get it, not because of the tattoo itself. If it had no meaning then the tattoo itself would not be offensive unless you found all tattoos offensive.



That's a red herring too. I can find something aesthetically unappealing without questioning why someone else might choose to get it. I don't have my earlobes pierced: doesn't mean that I consider ear piercing to be ugly or undesirable. I would never get my hands tattooed, but I don't think that anyone with a hand tattoo is a mentally ill junkie with a nihilistic outlook.
I agree alot with what you are saying but not entirely.

I think it takes a certain kind of person to wake up one day and think I wanna do some of these things and if you watch interviews on YouTube or documentaries it's pretty clear that most of them are a little wacky.

While I agree the Swastika has history it can be compared because you would get such a bold tattoo to make a point and you would do this to make a point aswell, they want looks and attention ain't nobody looking like that then trying to blend in.

Elderly and children would find these people terrifying and horrible for obvious reasons.

But I like your views, maybe some will feel I was a bit trigger happy and harsh on my comments towards this but they do look like literal monsters (ideally what they want so that's good I guess). And I do think you have to be a certain level of crazy to wanna do this and be like this til the day you die.

I do remember watching a documentary on King Body Art and he seemed a great dude and very clever.



They all look ridiculous to me though.

I also think the main thing we can't agree on is what is acceptable and what isn't, I can never say that just getting sleeves is the same as surgically changing your face to look like a horror character.
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Old 05-03-2018, 03:04 PM   #15
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The thing to keep in mind is that a lot of tattoo artists take pleasure in body modifications as well. My last session with Elliott we got to talking about body mods and both of our partners are interested in some of the less popular mods. For instance, my fiancÚ really wants to split her tongue. It skeeves me out a bit, but I totally respect her desire to look the way she wants. She also wants to get her ears pointed (like an elves'). This sounds weird but at the end of the day I love her and she is far from unstable. Just like you got over the stigma of tattooing and now see hit as no big deal, these people are doing the same. If they don't want to work in corporate and look this way, so be it. Killstar regularly employs a male model who has his eyes blacked out, so it's not like getting the mod makes you a non contributing member of society. I agree that its not something I would want done, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

The tongue thing is actually pretty cool when you research it. It's not fun to heal, but you actually have 2 muscles in there so when it's split you can move each part individually.
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Old 05-03-2018, 03:09 PM   #16
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The thing to keep in mind is that a lot of tattoo artists take pleasure in body modifications as well. My last session with Elliott we got to talking about body mods and both of our partners are interested in some of the less popular mods. For instance, my fiancÚ really wants to split her tongue. It skeeves me out a bit, but I totally respect her desire to look the way she wants. She also wants to get her ears pointed (like an elves'). This sounds weird but at the end of the day I love her and she is far from unstable. Just like you got over the stigma of tattooing and now see hit as no big deal, these people are doing the same. If they don't want to work in corporate and look this way, so be it. Killstar regularly employs a male model who has his eyes blacked out, so it's not like getting the mod makes you a non contributing member of society. I agree that its not something I would want done, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

The tongue thing is actually pretty cool when you research it. It's not fun to heal, but you actually have 2 muscles in there so when it's split you can move each part individually.
Please make a documentation if she does it! Be very interesting to see the whole process and what the pain and healing is like.

Do they numb it when they do it?
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Old 05-03-2018, 03:47 PM   #17
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Although it's a bit of a loose comparison, I can see why you'd correlate -some- and I stress -some- body mods with mental instability because there is a genuine diagnosis for people who do things like amputate parts of their body because they see them as 'alien' to their anatomy. However, that's on the very extreme end and I imagine that would reflect only a fraction of those who choose to do something like that.

However, I've met tons of people with personality disorders, body dysmorphia, schizophrenia, depression and other mental illnesses that look like your average Joe next door. It's really impossible to tell and mental illness does not discriminate. It's very hard to quantify the motivation and drive and understanding of personal choices, especially when it's not yours.

Overall, if you're talking about society, I think there is a scale of fucked-ness which I think we're all on and like others have said, your version of acceptable is going to be wildly different to others. Maybe you're trying too hard to understand something that you never will? And I don't mean that as an insult because I will never truly understand why someone would choose to tattoo their whole body black, but at the same time, it doesn't bother me one iota.
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Old 05-03-2018, 03:51 PM   #18
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While I agree the Swastika has history it can be compared because you would get such a bold tattoo to make a point and you would do this to make a point aswell, they want looks and attention ain't nobody looking like that then trying to blend in.
Eyeball tattooing! ..Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

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"it's pretty clear that most of them are a little wacky"

"Elderly and children would find these people terrifying and horrible for obvious reasons."

"they do look like literal monsters"

"I do think you have to be a certain level of crazy to wanna do this"

"They all look ridiculous to me though."
My problem is all the above quotes imply more than just distaste for someone's aesthetic choice, but rather highlight that you are making sweeping generalisations about the mental health of people that you have never met and, really, know nothing about.

If you'd begun with "this Brutal Black stuff, I really don't like the way if looks" and "I don't understand the motivation for someone to get their tongue split" then fair enough, you're starting a debate. Buy instead you wade straight in with the comments about "freaks", "mentally ill", "attention seeking", "junkies" - it's all just classic knee-jerk closed-mindedness and prejudice. And it is especially not the language or attitudes I'd expect from someone who clearly appreciates tattooing and is writing on a forum for tattoo enthusiasts.

I'll give you a final comparison: I think that you might have stretched ears yourself (and even if you don't, I'm sure many people on here do). Twenty years ago you would have looked to the general public like a freak of the first order walking around with large earlobes. Today fewer people will bat an eyelid but doubtless many still will refer to people with stretched ears as "freaks", "mentally ill", "attention seeking", "junkies... So, are they any more right to do so?
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Old 05-03-2018, 04:08 PM   #19
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Here's a link to the last time we discussed The Brutal Black Project. The video is in there as well.

I agree with most here that extreme body mods are not for me but I accept everyone's right to do with their body whatever they think will make them happy. Judging them and saying they are going too far is exactly the same as a non-tattooed person judging us for having tattoos. If more people were accepting of others that see things differently than them, the world would be a better place.
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Old 05-03-2018, 04:34 PM   #20
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Please make a documentation if she does it! Be very interesting to see the whole process and what the pain and healing is like.

Do they numb it when they do it?
They numb it a good amount, but you are fully awake while they do it. You just get cut by a scalpel, honestly scares me quite a bit, but I'm also scared of dental work.
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