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Old 13-06-2010, 03:24 AM   #1
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Default Discussion: Do 'celebrity' artists sacrifice integrity? AKA Phil Kyle is awesome

I've noticed on the board that very seldom do 'celebrity' tattoo artists every praised or recommended.

Now, I know that most of these artists are no better than most of the artists that get admired and recommended here, but they are good artists nevertheless.

e.g. Tim Hendricks, Nikole Lowe, Correy Miller, Dan Gold, and of course the more obvious ones.

So, do you think that by taking part in tv shows (Miami, LA, London Ink, etc...) they lose their credibility and integrity within the tattoo community?

Personally, I have little respect for the ones that cash in on the fame by overcharging.I have no problem with top class artists charging a price which reflects the quality of their work, but I find it hard to justify charging insane prices to just book a seat, before the cost of the tat gets added, something that the Miami crew are famous for.

But for those that charge a realistic rate, what is it that exiles them, so to speak, from places like here?

Last edited by JooJoo; 13-06-2010 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 13-06-2010, 08:58 AM   #2
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I think you will find plenty of love for Phil Kyle, Nikole Lowe and others who have been on the TV shows on this board, even members of the Miami Crew.

Certain people divide opinion, I am thinking Louis, but so do most artists.

I don't believe they have lost their credibility or sacrificed their integrity. What they have done is put themselves in a position where they can only do work that they want to do, which will inevitably upset some people.

Don't get dragged into thinking that the situation with pricing regardingthe shows is the same as it is for the artists in a day to day life. For example, I know there are several people on here that have work from Louis which I doubt they would have if it cost £XXX just to get a consult.

Most of these artists will fall into the regular pricing range (About £60 - 100 per hour) if you want a tattoo from them away from the show situation.

As to what exiles them from here, (Phil Kyle does post here and I believe Louis used to), they are probably very very busy tattooing, drawing and living like rock stars. Simples.

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Old 13-06-2010, 09:36 AM   #3
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I think some lose integrity if they allow themselves to be manipulated by the programme editors. Like all "reality shows" the reality bit seems to be increasingly lacking, the shows become scripted with fights set up and false situations created because the producers seem to think the show is not interesting enough anyway.

However those artists who stick to their guns and stick to who they are, like Phil, Nicole, Chris Garver - retain our respect. The fact they are consistently great artists has a huge part to play too. Some of the others can be a bit hit and miss when it comes to quality, others are just plain annoying.

I think some of the "loss of integrity" you may perceive is just from association. While the shows have done tattooing the world of good in terms of popularity and opening clients eyes to bigger better work, they have also given us a few problems - like clients don't realise how much big work costs, how long it takes and that you can't get a sleeve drawn up in 20 mins while you go grab a coffee".......
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Old 13-06-2010, 09:47 AM   #4
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I would say they get the same treatment of any other artists on here. No we dont go on about how amazing kat von d is, cause we all know there is far better out there. The problem is that the shows often make out like the artists on it are the best there is to offer. (I fact I think the opening credits say pretty much that on London Ink) We dont recomend the american artists to people as not many people come on the forum looking for an artist in the states. But the London Ink crew as Dave said often get recomended. Just remember there are a good number of other artists out there, and a good number that are better than the ones you see on TV.
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Old 13-06-2010, 01:27 PM   #5
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no matter what people might say about .. super stars in the tattoo world......they are very often judged by others way,way too harshly...!

we love to put people up there, then love bringing them down....its a thing we do,where as in the usa,they seem to praise those who make it in life....and admire them for it.?

only my thought on this.!

i have been in studios where so called super star artists wouldnt give you the time of day.?>and others who just are so down to earth with no hang ups at all.

its the twats only tattooing a week and believe that the tattoo business owes them everything,and who also believe their tattooing is the best ever....even though its bad or even mediocre at best....who get my nerves going.
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Old 13-06-2010, 01:52 PM   #6
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I must admit, I've met quite a few 'Superstar' Tattooers & all have been nothing but polite & quite humble.
I definatly think they get a bad rep & most people who talk shit about them have never actually spoken to them.

Although, in all honesty, I hate that 'Star Fucking' attitude people get around them. People treat them like fucking celebrities & bombard them with sycophantic messages & e-mails.
To me, these people just happen to work in the same industry I do. They're no more special or important than anyone else. They're just lucky enough to be at the top of their careers. Some may get a little up themselves, but mostly, they tend to be thankful that they are were they are because they've worked hard to get there.

Like Pert says, its the people who have never completed proper apprenticeships & who think they are God's gift to tattooing who piss me off more.
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Old 13-06-2010, 02:20 PM   #7
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Though put yourself in his shoes. If you could charge £1000 a tattoo, or £500 for the same tattoo, which would you do?

Its simple economics, the law of supply and demand. And its no different to super-groups charging £90 a ticket for a gig when local bands charge a fiver.

To be honest he'd be a muppet for not cashing it on it. Having sacrificed his personal life and privacy on a show like that, he may as well have something to show for it.
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Old 13-06-2010, 06:34 PM   #8
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Speaking from a laymans point of view and having watched the celebrity shows I think the only thing that can happen is that the artist can expose their personalities for scrutiny as well as their art.

In magazines you can only judge the artist by his work and may well book wit an artist that when you meet them you find you don't particularly like but will still end up with some nice art. Eventually the artists personality will become better known.

With TV shows however you get to see what the artist is like as a person as well as an artist, if they are a decent sort then the exposure can only do them good, if they come across as a big headed, arrogant cock then they may loose some potential customers that otherwise would have used them.

Case in point I find some of Mr Molloys art stunning but having seen him on the telly box would never spend any of my hard earned cash with such a tosspot
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Old 13-06-2010, 06:37 PM   #9
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its amazing how tv shows can affect people. To the point were, since reality tattoo shows popped up... people who were never actually interested in tattoo art, have all of a sudden become interested, because of the show. Im not saying this is totally bad thing, but if the tv series is the only "education" they've had on the subject, then I feel they are missing the whole bigger picture and what its culture is all about.

I also detest the soap opera shyt they put on the shows.. alot more in miami than in the london series.. they are still watchable as there are some great artists
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Old 13-06-2010, 06:44 PM   #10
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I've mentioned this interview before, and I couldn't remember where I'd read it... I think it's from 2008.

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Bizarre - What has been the worst part of this mainstream notoriety?

Kat - The worst part has been how much respect Iíve lost in the tattoo world. It doesnít matter how hard I try there are always going to be people that hate me and what I do. The majority of it is the tattoo industry having the wrong idea about what Iím driven by, thinking Iím making a mockery of tattooing. All the hard work Iíve put in over the years to gain that respect went out the window now that Iím on TV.
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